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	<title>Comments on: Appropriating Halloween and Creating Liminal Times</title>
	<atom:link href="http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/</link>
	<description>spirituality, technology, personal</description>
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		<title>By: Ravine of Light &#187; Vampire Protection - October Synchroblog</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>Ravine of Light &#187; Vampire Protection - October Synchroblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-427</guid>
		<description>[...] through the negatives of mission Paul Walker Sea Raven at Gaia Rising Halloween: My experiences by Tim Victor&#8217;s Musings Making Space for Halloween by Nic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] through the negatives of mission Paul Walker Sea Raven at Gaia Rising Halloween: My experiences by Tim Victor&#8217;s Musings Making Space for Halloween by Nic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Halloween&#8230;.why all the madness? (A Synchroblog) &#124; Reba Baskett's Blog</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-216</link>
		<dc:creator>Halloween&#8230;.why all the madness? (A Synchroblog) &#124; Reba Baskett's Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 00:04:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-216</guid>
		<description>[...] mission Paul Walker Sea Raven at Gaia Rising Halloween: My experiences by Lew A Timothy Victor at Tim Victor&#8217;s Musings Making Space for Halloween by Nic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] mission Paul Walker Sea Raven at Gaia Rising Halloween: My experiences by Lew A Timothy Victor at Tim Victor&#8217;s Musings Making Space for Halloween by Nic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: timvictor</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-58</link>
		<dc:creator>timvictor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 07:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-58</guid>
		<description>Thanks John,

I&#039;ll try and organise a copy of the book. I wish I&#039;d known about it before my post :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks John,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll try and organise a copy of the book. I wish I&#8217;d known about it before my post <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: John W. Morehead</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>John W. Morehead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 16:57:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-52</guid>
		<description>Tim, I&#039;m glad you found my Burning Man research and reflections of help. I&#039;ll be interested in reading your thoughts on its South African contextualization.

Thanks for posting on the positive aspects of syncretism since this is largely or wholly viewed by evangelicals in negative terms, but it can also be viewed as a postive part of the contextualization process. Evangelicals in missions in the West need to do some careful thinking here since we seem to be entering into a period of renewed conservatism and retrenchment where syncretism is concerned.

I&#039;ll take a look at your thoughts on yoga and Christians. As an aside, I like reading various things with missional eyes, and with that in mind you might enjoy reading Sarah Strauss&#039;s &quot;Positioning Yoga&quot; (Berg, 2005). The book looks at how yoga has been able to move cross-culturally along social networks in the west to become &quot;a dynamic global industry.&quot; Fascinating stuff.

I&#039;d be more than happy to dialogue on issues related to missions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim, I&#8217;m glad you found my Burning Man research and reflections of help. I&#8217;ll be interested in reading your thoughts on its South African contextualization.</p>
<p>Thanks for posting on the positive aspects of syncretism since this is largely or wholly viewed by evangelicals in negative terms, but it can also be viewed as a postive part of the contextualization process. Evangelicals in missions in the West need to do some careful thinking here since we seem to be entering into a period of renewed conservatism and retrenchment where syncretism is concerned.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll take a look at your thoughts on yoga and Christians. As an aside, I like reading various things with missional eyes, and with that in mind you might enjoy reading Sarah Strauss&#8217;s &#8220;Positioning Yoga&#8221; (Berg, 2005). The book looks at how yoga has been able to move cross-culturally along social networks in the west to become &#8220;a dynamic global industry.&#8221; Fascinating stuff.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be more than happy to dialogue on issues related to missions.</p>
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		<title>By: timvictor</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>timvictor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 13:18:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-50</guid>
		<description>Hi John,

Thanks for your post. I&#039;ve read your stuff on Burning Man and am headed to the first ever South African version (Afrika Burns).

You&#039;re right on noting that there is a negative element to syncretism. I deliberately did not touch on that in order to focus on the positive.

I&#039;ve just done something similar on &quot;yoga and Christians&quot; and welcome some input from you. Would you be keen for some continued dialogue related to missions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>Thanks for your post. I&#8217;ve read your stuff on Burning Man and am headed to the first ever South African version (Afrika Burns).</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right on noting that there is a negative element to syncretism. I deliberately did not touch on that in order to focus on the positive.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve just done something similar on &#8220;yoga and Christians&#8221; and welcome some input from you. Would you be keen for some continued dialogue related to missions?</p>
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		<title>By: John W. Morehead</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>John W. Morehead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-46</guid>
		<description>Tim,

Great post. The idea and fear of syncretism is a huge issue for evangelicals these days in the West with the decline of Christendom culture and the increasing visibility of other religions and all things perceived as Pagan. But this issue must be carefully thought through, and you are correct to note in some of your quotes that to some extent syncretism is unavoidable as religions borrow and adapt from each other. This is why some have distinguished between positive and negative forms of syncretism, although the word remains a strongly negative term in evangelical circles by and large.

You also hit on several important elements for positive consideration by Christians, including the notions of festival, liminality, and veneration (as well as continued connectedness) with the ancestors. I noted these same elements taking place at Burning Man Festival, and on my own blog I have noted how these types of elements need to be tapped into by Christians in order to create a more healthy and holistic response to death in Protestant circles where, in my view, we have not done a very good job of such things. Perhaps evangelical reactions to Halloween represent our shallowness in this area, and North America&#039;s increasing embrace of Halloween and related festivals represents an unpaid bill of the church.

Thanks for a great post.

John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p>
<p>Great post. The idea and fear of syncretism is a huge issue for evangelicals these days in the West with the decline of Christendom culture and the increasing visibility of other religions and all things perceived as Pagan. But this issue must be carefully thought through, and you are correct to note in some of your quotes that to some extent syncretism is unavoidable as religions borrow and adapt from each other. This is why some have distinguished between positive and negative forms of syncretism, although the word remains a strongly negative term in evangelical circles by and large.</p>
<p>You also hit on several important elements for positive consideration by Christians, including the notions of festival, liminality, and veneration (as well as continued connectedness) with the ancestors. I noted these same elements taking place at Burning Man Festival, and on my own blog I have noted how these types of elements need to be tapped into by Christians in order to create a more healthy and holistic response to death in Protestant circles where, in my view, we have not done a very good job of such things. Perhaps evangelical reactions to Halloween represent our shallowness in this area, and North America&#8217;s increasing embrace of Halloween and related festivals represents an unpaid bill of the church.</p>
<p>Thanks for a great post.</p>
<p>John</p>
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		<title>By: timvictor</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>timvictor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-45</guid>
		<description>Yvonne,

The fundamentalists shout loudest and often become the picture that springs to mind whenever people think &quot;christian&quot;. My early experiences of Christianity were with fundamentalists and the memories aren&#039;t good.

Thanks for the suggestion on Ancestor Veneration. I&#039;ll post something (in the long run) around the subject of interfaith debate when I finally finish my book and (hopefully) get it published. It would be great to contributions from varying perspectives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yvonne,</p>
<p>The fundamentalists shout loudest and often become the picture that springs to mind whenever people think &#8220;christian&#8221;. My early experiences of Christianity were with fundamentalists and the memories aren&#8217;t good.</p>
<p>Thanks for the suggestion on Ancestor Veneration. I&#8217;ll post something (in the long run) around the subject of interfaith debate when I finally finish my book and (hopefully) get it published. It would be great to contributions from varying perspectives.</p>
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		<title>By: CHARIS SHALOM &#187; Bloated Body Parts and a Halloween Highjacking</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>CHARIS SHALOM &#187; Bloated Body Parts and a Halloween Highjacking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:54:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-44</guid>
		<description>[...] of mission Sea Raven - The Season of Samhain Lew A - Halloween: My experiences  Timothy Victor - Appropriating Halloween and creating liminal times Nic Paton - Making space for Halloween Barb - The heart of a child  Bryan Riley - Bloated body [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of mission Sea Raven &#8211; The Season of Samhain Lew A &#8211; Halloween: My experiences  Timothy Victor &#8211; Appropriating Halloween and creating liminal times Nic Paton &#8211; Making space for Halloween Barb &#8211; The heart of a child  Bryan Riley &#8211; Bloated body [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Yvonne</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Yvonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-43</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Ancestor veneration is so misunderstood and demonised by Western Christians. I’m excited about the possibility of reintroducing something akin to that.&lt;/em&gt;

One nice thing to do is to have a special niche (a bit like the beautiful corner in Orthodoxy) with photos of ancestors - both family members and people you admire - e.g. favourite saints or even secular heroes - and decorate it with suitable vegetation, and light a candle.

Also, if you&#039;re having a meal on 31st October, one Mexican Day of the Dead custom is to set a place at the table and leave it empty (a bit like leaving the door open for Elijah at Passover!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Ancestor veneration is so misunderstood and demonised by Western Christians. I’m excited about the possibility of reintroducing something akin to that.</em></p>
<p>One nice thing to do is to have a special niche (a bit like the beautiful corner in Orthodoxy) with photos of ancestors &#8211; both family members and people you admire &#8211; e.g. favourite saints or even secular heroes &#8211; and decorate it with suitable vegetation, and light a candle.</p>
<p>Also, if you&#8217;re having a meal on 31st October, one Mexican Day of the Dead custom is to set a place at the table and leave it empty (a bit like leaving the door open for Elijah at Passover!)</p>
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		<title>By: Yvonne</title>
		<link>http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Yvonne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 10:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvictor.wordpress.com/2007/10/23/appropriating-creating-liminal-times/#comment-42</guid>
		<description>Hi Tim

Well if you Google for Halloween and Samhain you will find a lot of fundamentalist rantings on the subject (the most amusing being that Samhain is a person, ha ha) - so it is a refreshing change to find you lovely synchrobloggers being nice :)

Steve - somehow the Sunday after Pentecost just doesn&#039;t seem to fit - I read somewhere that Orthodoxy attached the festivals to the natural cycles of the year (which is why the dating of Easter was so important) and the same is true of Judaism.

Anyway, the whole concept of Hallowe&#039;en is basically Catholic (All Souls and All Saints) so unless you were virulently anti-Catholic, there&#039;s nothing wrong with Christians celebrating it.

The idea that it is derived from a Pagan festival is basically a mistake of early 20th c folklorists who subscribed to an evolutionary theory of culture.  So - ahem - we nicked it off you lot.  Syncretism strikes again!

Always happy to converse on the subject of religion - I even nearly stepped over the wall into Orthodoxy, but decided that I am really a Unitarian (a Pagan who thinks Jesus is pretty cool, but doesn&#039;t buy into Christian theology, soteriology and eschatology).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Tim</p>
<p>Well if you Google for Halloween and Samhain you will find a lot of fundamentalist rantings on the subject (the most amusing being that Samhain is a person, ha ha) &#8211; so it is a refreshing change to find you lovely synchrobloggers being nice <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Steve &#8211; somehow the Sunday after Pentecost just doesn&#8217;t seem to fit &#8211; I read somewhere that Orthodoxy attached the festivals to the natural cycles of the year (which is why the dating of Easter was so important) and the same is true of Judaism.</p>
<p>Anyway, the whole concept of Hallowe&#8217;en is basically Catholic (All Souls and All Saints) so unless you were virulently anti-Catholic, there&#8217;s nothing wrong with Christians celebrating it.</p>
<p>The idea that it is derived from a Pagan festival is basically a mistake of early 20th c folklorists who subscribed to an evolutionary theory of culture.  So &#8211; ahem &#8211; we nicked it off you lot.  Syncretism strikes again!</p>
<p>Always happy to converse on the subject of religion &#8211; I even nearly stepped over the wall into Orthodoxy, but decided that I am really a Unitarian (a Pagan who thinks Jesus is pretty cool, but doesn&#8217;t buy into Christian theology, soteriology and eschatology).</p>
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